If you are looking to purchase a 365 GTC/4 then we encourage you to read the Buyer's Guides provided below and learn as much as you can about these wonderful automobiles. With only 500 made, good examples don't come up for sale often but you can check the For Sale section of the forum just in case one is available. Your best resource for buying a used Ferrari is the Ferrari Market Letter.
Classic Ferrari rarely change hands via private party sales without a broker. There is so much money at stake that buyers want protection and sellers don't want to be bothered by tire-kickers. This means that the most common way to buy a 365 GTC/4 will be either through a classic car dealer, a classic car broker, or at auction. How do these compare?
A classic car dealer might being selling a car they took in on a trade or they might have a car for sale on consignment. In either case, they've probably taken the time to go over the vehicle prior to sale. Their reputation is on the line so it is in their best interest to assure the car is safe, well presented, and represented accurately. The dealer might even be willing to provide a short (30 day) warranty as part of the sale. Any commission (in the case of consignment) will be paid by the seller. The dealer is a knowledgeable car seller and therefore knows the market and will have priced the car accordingly. There is almost always wiggle room between the asking and actual sale price. A good dealer should be willing to arrange a pre-purchase inspection by any reputable inspector of your choice and likely has facilities (a lift) where this can happen. The dealer should be able to arrange transportation of the vehicle for you as well. If you can arrive at a price that is agreeable to both parties, buying from a dealer is a fine way to purchase a 365 GTC/4.
There are a few popular Ferrari car brokers, such as Michael Sheehan's Ferraris Online who are always advertising cars for sale. They may or may not have physical possession of the vehicle and, hopefully, they've been hired by the seller to market to car for sale on their behalf. Like a dealer, the broker's commission is paid by the seller. Buying from a reputable broker should be similar to buying from a good dealer. Less reputable brokers should be avoided. Be particularly wary if you see the same car advertised by multiple brokers/dealers.
Classic car auctions are a popular way to trade high-end classic cars. Auctions are mini-markets where the laws of supply and demand are immediately evident. If there is a lot of demand for a particular car, chances are the price will be high but if the wrong buyers are in the room or the car isn't appropriate for the event then there may be a chance for a bidder to "win" the lot for a low price. There are many things to watch out for at an auction. First, you are limited to the vehicles for sale for that event. There's unlikely to be more than one or two 365 GTC/4s at any given auction. Buying at an auction is a rushed 3-minute frenzied affair with everyone going crazy to get more than the car is worth. You often don't get enough information to really know what you are buying. If you are considering buying a car at auction take full advantage of the time available before the car actually goes onto the auction block. If possible, talk to the owner and arrange a professional 3rd party inspection and test drive. Remember that cars are never "represented by the auction house." In all actions, any statements or representations are strictly and solely those made by the seller so you're not getting any protection from a large auction company. This makes pre-inspection all the more important. If you are going to need financing or shipping try to arrange it all beforehand. Be aware that at auctions you are required to remove your vehicle immediately after the event and transport companies charge a premium at these events. At auctions, you are expected to pay up to a 10% Buyer's Premium above the purchase price of the vehicle so factor that into your bidding. Don't get caught up with pre-sale estimates or a bidding war -- research the market beforehand so that you know what the car is worth and bid accordingly. Each auction has its own unique character and if you are skillful you might be able to find one where the buyers aren't interested in the car you want, or you might be caught in a room of deep pockets and pay too much.
Standard classic car buying rules apply equally well to purchasing a 365 GTC/4.
- Demand to see the books and service history
- Unmaintained cars are ticking time bombs and original books and tools cost more than most modern cars.
- Get the car inspected
- A professional will alert you to any issues and that will help you negotiate the price with the seller.
- Drive the car
- Don't buy a car sight unseen or be intimidated into not driving a car just because it is a Ferrari. You need to feel the 2nd gear synchro and see if the turn signals cancel.
- Buy the nicest car you can afford
- Restorations are expensive and project cars are not for the faint of heart. Let someone else spend the money making the car perfect.
- Don't buy as an investment
- Occasionally someone times the market just right and doubles or triples their money in a year or two but once you factor in the costs of insurance, storage, and repair classic cars don't often make good "buy and hold" investments. Read Bloomberg's article entitled Stop Kidding Yourself. A Classic Car Is (Almost) Never a Good Investment .
"You can always sleep in your Ferrari but you can't drive your house"
Through the years there have been a couple times when a 365 GTC/4 has cost more than the average home in the United States.
Interestingly, 365 GTC/4s never really depreciated much below their original sticker price, reaching a low price of $24,105 in April 1976 (less than 13% depreciation). By April 1978 an owner was back in the black. However, compare that to an investment in the stock market at an average annual return of 7%. In 2018 that $27,500 would be worth roughly $650,000, so again, cars are rarely good investments.
As with many classic cars, matching numbers are an important factor in old Ferrari valuation. The serial numbers for a 365 GTC/4 can be found atop the steering column, on a data plate affixed to the inner fender well in the engine compartment, and stamped into the chassis above the front spring mounting on the right side. The engine number can be found stamped in the center valley of the engine, near the oil filters. The gearbox number is stamped into the bottom of the case near the output shaft. The transaxle number is stamped into the lower rear cover.
The five digit serial number is stamped onto the top of the steering column.
USA models have a plate on the driver's door that includes the serial number and date of build (s/n 15665).
The serial number is stamped into a plate affixed to the right inner fender liner (s/n 15665).
The serial number is stamped into the frame near the right front suspension (s/n 16057).
The three digit engine number is stamped into the valley of the engine block, behind the oil filters and under the throttle linkage (s/n 16025, engine 317).
The three digit gearbox number is stamped into rear bottom of the transmission (s/n 16025, gearbox 267).
The three digit transaxle number is stamped into the rear of the differential (s/n 16025, gearbox 305).
Under hood location of serial and engine numbers (s/n 15505).
If you are the owner of a 365 GTC/4 then we encourage you to register so that you can get the full benefits of the site, including the ability to post to the forum, view the online registry of cars, and converse with other owners. Registration is limited to 365 GTC/4 owners only.
On the Track
Not all Ferrari are trailer queens and some owners regularly exercise their 365 GTC/4s on the track. Here's a shout out to the members who use their cars.
Common Problems
Every car has some design flaw or other problem area and the 365 GTC/4 is no different. Overall, the cars are remarkably reliable but when a problem arises the owners post to the Forum for answers. Anyone can search the forum to see what the owners are discussing. Here's a select list of issues many owners have encountered.
- Leaky load levelers
- The seals on the Koni load leveling shocks in the rear of the car eventually perish and leak oil. When this happens there are two choices: repair them or replace them with coil over shocks. New load levelers are not available. Repair requires specialized seals, a gasification tool, high pressure nitrogen, and knowledge. Koni now offers rebuilding of the unit but they don't have the correct seal and end up modifying the internals to use a different seal. This fix has been known to fail. Avoid Jeff LeBlond in Arizona -- he welds in bungs for Schrader valves and generally messes things up. Fortunately, a 365 GTC/4 owner in Australia has had the original seals reproduced and has built a tool for recharging the units. But he operates on a good-will basis, not as a business.
- Tailpipe rust
- Because the tailpipes angle upward at the rear, a low spot exists in the back of the muffler box and in the lower bend of the tailpipe where condensation can sit and corrode the units. When this happens there are two choices: buy new tailpipes from ANSA (they are still available) every decade or two or buy an aftermarket stainless steel exhaust. Also, exhaust parts no longer available from ANSA (such as the US center mufflers) can be purchased from Classiche s.r.l. - the company that purchased all of ANSA's old tooling.
- Exhaust smell
- These are old carburated cars so a certain rich smelling exhaust is part of the "charm". That said, the cars need to be properly jetted and tuned for optimal combustion. To avoid smelly clothes in the trunk one must make certain that the trunk lid is properly aligned and has a good rubber seal. Finally, make sure there are no holes in any portion of the exhaust system.
- Rusting exhaust heat shields (US cars)
- Cars built for the USA market had crudely built steel heat shielding around the headers. Inside this shielding was some thermo wrap batting that gathered moisture and accelerated rusting of the metal outside. The fix is to cut off the old metal and coat the headers with a modern ceramic coating.
- Headlight motors
- The pop-up headlight system is a complex pre-digital system consisting of two motors, linkage, switches, and a number of mechanical relays. Generally speaking, it is quite reliable but the relays can fail and the motors can get their cams out of sync if messed with. Fortunately, we have a headlight troubleshooting guide and, if all else fails, the motors have knobs on top which can be manually rotated in case of emergency.
- Brake hose deterioration
- The rubber brake hoses swell and deteriorate from the inside, resulting in caliper lock-up. The fix is simple: replace your brake hoses (they are available).
- US Thermo valve flaps
- Another problem unique to US models. The US air cleaner has a flap in the snorkel that is controlled by oil pressure/temperature. They never worked properly and everyone quickly learned to plug the oil lines and remove the flap from inside the air cleaner.
- Rear window rust
- As mentioned, the cars don't have a lot of rust issues but water running off the roof, down the rear window tends to settle at the bottom of the widow and can rust through. Look for water damage on the mouse hair trim below the window. Fix like any other rust.
- Front brake duct valance rust
- There is a pocket below the brake ducts and above the valance where leaves and junk can get stuck and collect moisture. Clean out, fix if rusted.
- Hood scoop cracks
- The aluminum hood is generally well braced and strong but there is a slight weak spot in the front corners of the hood scoops where the metal and/or paint can crack. Fix as normal.
- Crazed black cowl paint
- For some reason, the matte black paint on the cowl below the wipers tends to craze and can be very difficult to eradicate. Strip to bare metal and respray.
- Hot starters
- If there is any weakness in the battery, cables, solenoid, ignition switch, or starter motor then they will make themselves known when trying to start a hot car. The starter soaks a lot of heat from the headers. If everything is in proper working order, including the curves heat shield above the starter motor, then there shouldn't be any problems. There are also smaller aftermarket high torque starters that can be fitted. Make sure any starter is properly shimmed to correctly engage the teeth on the flywheel.
- Power steering overheat on track
- Overall the cars do quite well on the track but one issue is power steering fluid frothing/overheating and coming out the hood scoop. This is due to persistent high RPMs on the power steering pump. Proper levels, high quality fluid, and some cool down laps should manage the problem.
- Accessory belt clicking
- After sitting for a long time, the accessory belts can gain a "memory" of the pulley curves. When started cold, these "kinks" in the Kevlar-reinforced belts can make a snapping, or clicking sound that makes one fear bigger problems. The fix: wait for the belts to warm up. And drive the car more often.
- Hood pad sag
- The insulation material on the underside of the hood is held on via adhesive and some perimeter slots. Over time, heat and oils cause the adhesive to fail, usually near the scoop openings where there is no additional support. Because adhesive doesn't stick to oily materials, it is usually impossible to get the old pad to adhere again. Fortunately, replacement hood pad kits are still available. Note that the pads on the 365 GTC/4 are perforated black, not the silver used on Daytonas.
- Carb tuning
- This isn't really an issue. Once set, the carbs are remarkably trouble free. However, getting them set in the first place takes some skill and tools. The linkage needs to be exactly correct, the jetting needs to be properly sized, and the idle mixture needs to be set using a multi-tube hydrometer.
- Blinker cancel issues
- Some onwers are recently experiencing blinkers that don't automatically cancel after the steering is turned and sthen straightened. There is a plastic cam in the column that wears. Fortunately, Unobtainium Supply can repair them.
- Oil leaks
- British cars only stop leaking when they run out of oil. The 365 GTC/4 isn't that bad but there are some common areas in and around the timing chain cover than are notoriously difficult to get properly sealed. Either replace the gaskets or live with the leak.
- Timing chain tensioners
- The timing chain on the 365 GTC/4 engine is quite long and therefore can rattle if stretched. The original tensioner design (pre 15181 & 15289) was not as beefy as the later units.
- Difficult removing air filters
- Yep. They are a pain to remove. Getting the side covers off is easy - just 6 clips. But there isn't enough room between the carb trumpets and the brake booster to get the filter element out. Worse, there are 3 nuts around each carb throat that hold the air cleaner box to the carb. Getting them all off is a time consuming and fiddly job. Be patient.
- Difficult getting to valve adjust
- With side draft carbs, to get to the valves you must first remove all the carbs. Getting the air cleaner off is the hardest part but it's still a lot more difficult than with a Daytona.
- Cam wear
- Gary Bobileff once wrote an article for Sempre Ferrari claiming that Ferrari had a flaw in their 4-cam camshaft hardening process prior to the 365 BB. Be sure to inspect the cams and shims during every valve adjustment. If necessary, the cams can be repaired or replaced.
- Cracked speaker grills
- The grills are plastic and tend to get kicked. Fortunately, someone has made metal versions.
- Broken seat vent rings
- The outer vent rings are plastic and break if the seat leather is replaced. Fortunately, someone has made reproductions.
- Broken sun visor clips
- The clips are plastic and can break. Fortunately, someone has made reproductions.
- Broken air vent retainers
- The four round air vents in the dash are held in place by a wire clip attached to the plastic center post. That post can break but the vent can be repaired with some patient drilling and epoxy and a screw.
Targas and Spyders
Many owners want to express their individuality onto their cars. This is not traditionally so popular with Enzo-era V-12 Ferrari because of the potential negative effect on value -- one man's personal touch is often another man's abomination. Even so, the 365 GTC/4 has been the object of a few conversions, including cabriolet (spyder), targa, and even station wagon mods. The first known cabriolet conversion was made by Luigi Chinetti Jr. in 1981 and a second one was completed in early 1984 by Mike Sheehan's European Auto Restoration in Costa Mesa, CA. Claudio Zampolli's Italia Sports Cars of Sherman Oaks, CA converted at least three 365 GTC/4s into cabriolets or targas. The contours of the body practically dictate where the new deck for the cabriolet must be. Some conversions (such as by Claudio Zampolli) use a canvas or vinyl snap-on top boot while others have a more sophisticated fold-up hard tonneau cover. Often the cabriolet conversions are combined with other modifications such as custom upholstery, painted bumpers, woodgrain instruments, and decklid spoilers.
Willy Felber Cars
In cooperation with the Italian design firm Michelotti, the Swiss Willy Felber made two custom cars, both based on the single 365 GTC/4 s/n 16017. In 1976 16017 was rebodied by Felber as the Michelotti-designed "Beach Car" and subsequently shown at the 1976 Geneva Salon. This body was then removed and replaced by Felber with a brown "shooting brake" body with a white roof (not to be confused with the blue "Croisette" body Felber installed on 365 GT4 2+2 s/n 18255). After showing the car with the shooting brake body at Geneva in 1977, Felber reinstalled the Beach Car body. 16017 still exists today in beach car configuration and has been seen at shows and auctions in and around Switzerland with gold paint and blue interior. All records indicate that it has never left the Switzerland area and that the current owner thinks it is worth much more than the market thinks. According to W.H. Felber's Classic Car site:
the "Sheikh of Qatar asked for them to build a beach car. ...the vehicle was to some extent the fun version of a Ferrari. The two-seater car had neither roof nor doors and transferred the concept of the buggies to larger dimensions".
Unfortunately, the Sheikh portion (Sheikh Al Tahani) of this story is almost certainly incorrect. The beach car shown in 1976 was built on spec and not for any Sheikh. Besides, it was rebodied in 1977 into the shooting brake. It is possible that a Sheikh later (circa 1981) commisioned a shooting brake from Felber based on having seen the 1977 show car but 16017 was not that car. The site also claims the basis for the car was a Daytona Spider, which is again incorrect. Beware marketing materials from car customizers.
It is more common for rich Middle Easterners to commission shooting brakes than "beach cars". Unfortunately, the 1977 Felber shooting brake body was destroyed when the car was rebodied back into the beach car. Car and Driver covered a number of Ferrari shooting brake (or "station wagon") conversions in this article.
Willy Felber and his cars circa 1977
Felber Beach Car Michelotti Ad circa 1976
Felber Shooting Brake Ad circa 1977
Felber Beach Car in white
Felber Beach Car s/n 16017
Felber Beach Car s/n 16017 circa 1976
Felber Beach Car Dash s/n 16017
Felber Beach Car model
Felber Beach Car s/n 16017 at 2014 Concorso d'Eleganza Italiauto in Switzerland
Felber Beach Car s/n 16017 at 2014 Concorso d'Eleganza Italiauto in Switzerland
Felber Beach Car s/n 16017 at 2014 Concorso d'Eleganza Italiauto in Switzerland
Felber Beach Car s/n 16017 at 2014 Concorso d'Eleganza Italiauto in Switzerland
Other Custom Touches
A much less severe custom touch that is quite popular is painting the front bumper in body color. Inexplicably, a number of owners have covered their console and instruments with wood grain applique. One of the least significant but popular modifications is to paint the lower front valence matte black to match the rear of the car and take some attention away from the duct work under the front bumper.
Custom body-color bumper s/n 15355
Custom body-color bumper s/n 15695
Custom body-color bumper s/n 15765
Custom body-color bumper s/n 14953
Leather dash, aluminum speaker grills s/n 14579
Custom wood applique s/n 15713
Custom wood, targa, seats, radio, header, etc. s/n 15213
Black lower valance s/n 15505
Highly modified body vents, SF shields, fixed headlights, etc s/n unknown
Highly modified body, spoiler, boxer bumpers, etc same s/n unknown
Highly modified body, two boxer taillights, bumpers, etc same s/n unknown
Woodgrain, custom door panels, etc same s/n unknown
One example of a successful custom 365 GTC/4 is s/n 14837. Finished in a shade of Azzuro metallic, the car has undergone significant customization in bodywork, interior, and mechanicals. The front of the car has been heavily modified by removing the black front bumper and creating an entirely new nose that eliminates the pop-up headlights in favor of a custom grill with headlight openings and small turn signal indicators. Moving back along the car one finds that the side marker lights have been shaved, 3 polished metal "strakes" have been added to each hood scoop, and side vents have been cut into the front fenders. Custom side mirrors have been added to each door and a tasteful flaring of the front and rear fenders allows for wider wheels and tires. The rear of the car was also substantially modified. The rear bumper was completely removed, the tailpipes shortened and the center panel modified and painted in body color. A small rear kick-up was molded into the trunk lid and rear quarter panels and the body accent lines sharpened.
The interior was changed by adding 550 Maranello seats and removing the rear seats altogether. A rear package shelf was created to fill the rear seat area. This makes the C/4 into a true 2-seat sports car like the Daytona. The console sides were covered in seat leather and custom door panels were created by Prestige Upholstery in Van Nuys, CA. They use parts from a 550 and move the interior door latch onto the armrest. A more modern steering wheel and a larger shift ball add to the enhanced driving experience.
Mechanically, this Ferrari 365 GTC/4 has been specially modified by Carobu Engineering. The modifications include a 5.0 liter C/4-412i hybrid engine, Brembo GT "Big Brake" kit, 17" Razzo Rosso wheels and height adjustable suspension with 300-lb front and 200-lb rear springs. The 17x8-inch front and 17x10-inch rear Razzo Rosso wheels carry 235/50-17 front and 285/40-17 rear tires. Following break-in and tuning, this engine produced maximum power of 410 HP at 6,400 rpm and maximum torque of an amazing 385 lb-ft at 4,500 rpm. In August 2009 Forza Issue 95 featured an article on 14837.
While sporting fewer modifications than 14837, another well done custom 365 GTC/4 is s/n 15869. It is a spyder conversion by Carrozzeria Auto Sport in Bastiglia, near Modena, a company whose experience stretches back to 1972, when it was founded under the name Bacchelli & Villa. Before then, Franco Bacchelli was an understudy to Piero Drogo in the 1950s; Roberto Villa worked at Scaglietti. It strikes an elegant pose in its very dark Blu Ortis paint with red seats and blue top and carpet. Gills in the front fenders are a custom touch also seen in another, less elegant, spyder conversion (s/n unknown) shown below.
Fallen Friends
Most of the 500 365 GTC/4s built by Ferrari still survive today. The cars are well built, don't have major rust issues, have always been expensive, and are generally well taken care of. That being said, unfortunately we've lost a couple to wrecks and neglect. It takes a lot to give up on a car worth hundreds of thousands of dollars so 15617 was repaired and 15493 has been for sale and may make it back on the road again someday yet. 15885 was hit and caught fire and has since been parted out.
